Missed my point entirely, Bob

While Joel and Rod may have spoken about the issues of salvation and the gospel, my point is exactly this:

I must say I haven’t read primary Catholic authors writing after Vatican 2. But in what I’ve heard and read about Vatican 2 it never abrogates the Council of Trent and it doesn’t change church teaching on additional things “necessary unto salvation”. I’m foolish enough to trust the Reformers and evangelical Protestants up through the middle of the 20th Century who have studied these matters and conclude that Roman Catholic doctrine on salvation is confusing at best and damning at worst.

How do you know Vatican II didn’t at least temper the statements of Trent if all you done is hear about Vatican II and read about Vatican II?  Especially if you only hear about this from Protestant sources?  Have you even looked at the section on the Protestant churches in the most recent Catechism of the Catholic Church?

Let’s put it this way … If you were a student in one of my classes, and I asked you to write an exegesis paper on Job 1-2, and you read commentaries about Job 1-2, but never got into the actual text of Job 1-2, I’d give you an F.  Now, sub in Catholic theology.  If I asked you write a paper on Catholic theology, and all you read was Protestant commentary on Catholic theology and never got into any actual Catholic theology, I’d give you an F.

I repeat: This is unacceptable.  If you are going to tell me that I and a large part of my denomination (including my mother, my father, my wife, and my two little girls) are potentially going to die and go to hell with any kind of integrity, you cannot do so without at least first trying to see things from my perspective.  At the very least, I think Jesus’ command to love your neighbor demands that.

I voice my disagreements with Protestant friends, but guess what … I’ve got an MA from a Baptist Seminary.  Now, I’m not asking nearly that much out of you.  Could you at least read a couple of Catholic books before you tell me that many of us are perishing for all eternity?  That’s all I’m asking.


  • I find it interesting to read Karl Keating recommending people read pre Vatican II documents.
    Why is that?

    • I wouldn’t venture to say, since I haven’t read anything that Karl Keating has written.

    • By the way, I wouldn’t take Karl Keating very seriously. But say, when the current pope has written a book called Introduction to Christianity, that I would take seriously.

  • its sad, sad, sad that people insist on treating theology and biblical studies with so little respect that they feel free to offer an opinion when they haven’t bothered to study the subject in anything more than a shallow fashion. absurd too.

    • Indeed. And, the problem is not critique. In fact, the church invites critique. It is unreflective critique with an unwillingness for self-examination that is the problem.

  • yes nothing new there.

  • The root problem could be that some of these folks don’t believe us ignorant Catholic sheep HAVE any theology or DO any biblical study.

  • […] the discussion today, some have admitted that they have yet to read a real Catholic Theologian, so I thought that I might share […]

  • […] Last week, in a discussion about Roman Catholicism that was spawned from a statement made by Bob Hayton, Bob and I were called task for not having read Catholic theologians. […]